Digital Workshop

I was just reading up on mobile app development and some HTML5 perspectives, and found mention of Modernizr. I have no idea (yet) if it has any relevance to our work with Opus.

Quoted excerpts are somewhat out of context.I'd be happy to provide the link to the pages I browsed to DW or Mackavi, etc -- it may not be appropriate for me to post the url here since the site discusses a lot of development tools and frameworks.

Thanks Lar,

I did look at it a while back as it's recommended by jQuery's as their feature analysis .support is internal. Turned out, that jQuery handled everything I needed anyway.

Feature detection strikes me as potential can of worms. I know why it was necessary initially, but the problem seems more fragmented than a few ago. Many, many users are unwilling or unable to upgrade past Windows XP and therefore potentially stuck with a browser -IE8 - that has next to no HTML5 support. If people / companies bite the bullet and move to W7 - which is a great OS and seems preferred over W8, then again users may be tied to IE9 which again has limited HTML5 support compared to the other players.

If users have the ability to select a browser then the main players seem so closely matched in HTML5 features that feature detection becomes almost pointless. Add to the fact that anybody who is not running IE is then more likely to be able to run any other browser if it really is necessary for a particular feature - video format or local storage type. If there isn't really any ultra-new feature that is need then IE9 actually does a damn good job and is like the lowest common denominator and thus a foundation to build upon.

On the other hand, you could throw all the browsers into the mix - old, new and on every platform and then libraries such as jQuery and Modernizr could also be declared pointless as they are not designed to cope with everything - simply what the designers consider popular. There's uproar in the jQuery camp at present that version 2.0 won't support anything pre IE9 - which I get the impression is the same as Opus HTML5?

I'm sure that feature detection does have a place, not sure I could define it or need to at the moment - web technologies change and develop so fast it's head hurting to keep pace. Any of these technologies might want to be universal but at the end of the day - you look at what the client's requirements are and build accordingly.

Mack

There's a workaround in the shape of Chrome Frame. I've tried it in IE8 on XP, and it works perfectly. Of course the user needs to install it, but it does mean there's a solution for business users hanging on to IE6.

And I was reading yesterday that Microsoft will be pushing out IE10 over Windows Update to Windows 7 users.

Thanks Dave,

You just made my day. A plug-in to run a pluginless technology - you have to love the irony.

The news about IE10 is great though - hadn't heard about that.

Mack

Thanks very much Mack.
I appreciate you're sharing your perspective on this with all of the above comments. I think (I hope) that now I will not worry so much about feature differences as an issue. At least I will table it as an issue until I run into some specific obstacles, should they crop up.

You mentioned IE9 etc. Let me ask this: do you know if the embedded browser engine Opus provides has been updated in Opus in the last couple years? Will it be HTML5 capable in the foreseeable future?

"Head hurting" is so true.
Now, after some additional reading, I see that feat. det. is not as granular as I was thinking. I was coming at it from Opus' Actions and script commands, and thinking how do I prevent failures at that level (across multiple devices/client-machines).

Problem is I don't have 'a [single] client' per se. I have a target audience. I am resurrecting an earlier aim to publish an interactive ebook. Trouble is the landscape has drastically changed, both technology/devices and usage/behaviours. Possibly many people don't 'read' anymore, or rather do so with short attention spans and they want to be distracted and entertained... then they'll want to FB/share some fleeting moment perhaps.

FYI, my project/aim: When I say 'interactive', I mean a non-linear workbook with user selections and input, conditional branching, and so local storage is a must. I've got to try to reach mobile users in some capacity (full Pub or not), and probably leverage the cloud too. Going forward with this I'm faced with choosing tools: authoring/CMS, coding & development, fulfillment & deployment. I'd like to 'get it right' so I can evolve this into a publishing platform for others' works. My challenge with Opus (in the past) was a desire to separate content from container, not do all maintenance & updating within Opus. I prefer a using DB over other external options. DB is great in full Opus Pub and Windows, not so clear a Opus dev path for DB on mobile.

Cheers,
Lar

Hi Lar,

Sounds like you have lots to process.

As for the IE issue - you'd probably need an official response from DW as to the actual workings of the browser object. My understanding is based on the somewhat technical test that loading web pages that reveal browser details and capabilities shows that it does use the system browser for current IE version - so IE9 on my W7 machine but IE8 on the my XP one. Additionally, it seems that the full features available in the desktop version are not available in the browser object which scored 100 points less on the HTML5 test. I think, I could be very wrong, that it won't run JavaScript - maybe it's a setting - it certainly won't run any of my HTML5 activities or the DW previews.

Though in all honest - I personally see no benefit in the Browser Object and not sure I understand why you'd want to load any website, let alone a HTML5 one into a PC only application. If you are unable or unwilling to wait and see what Opus HTML5 brings, then with your understanding of OpusScript you may want to look at jQuery. There is a superb on-line training site here:http://learn.appendto.com/lessons

Mack

'Yes' on that first point. I am currently looking for O/S CMS/Authoring tools... too many to choose from! But before I go too far with generating content, I want to layout the flow and progression... and then determine how I will display to the user and engage the user. Then there's branching and conditional content/navigation. For all of this as long as I author text/documents external to Opus, Opus excels. Especially so for creating the User interaction and scripting/logic. (I do not like actually writing large amounts in Opus Editor, and worse in runtime Text-input object. Besides I need to either have structured data or sections with tags/keywords.)

My question on the Browser object/engine relates to two lines of thought. If I set mobile targets aside for now and produce just for PC/Full_Pub, I expect to use the browser object for the larger sections of text w/images-- so I want to peg browser version to some degree so I can use CSS/CSS3 to advantage.
The other, albeit fleeting, line of thought was this. What if I publish for the mobile users browsers, and then develop extra interactivity and extra form input pages for Windows PC users. Using Opus, I can (?) have all of that existing mobile content displayed in the Opus browser object (html5/css by then?), and use the rest of the Opus Page for adding those plus features that weren't practical or possible on mobile phone displays anyway. I suppose Tablets need to be considered somewhere in here.


Thanks again.

Reminds me of Jonny Cash's One Piece at a Time...

Oddly out of the HTML5 trinity, I'd peg the CSS as the hardest part - that's where Opus HTML5 will excel. Although a car without an engine is just a metal box, people are generally primarily concerned with what that metal box looks like not how it works.

As I said, you'd probably need DW to explain whether the current browser object would render a HTML5 page or if not will it be upgrade or even possible.

Mack

Yes it is possible, but the problem is the IE control (and so the browser object) defaults to IE7 compatibility mode.

But there's a workaround, either by setting a meta tag in your HTML, or with a registry key:

http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4612 ... er-control

("Workaround" is a word that seems to get used a lot with web technologies )

Opus produced HTML5 will support the browser object as an IFRAME, which basically is the same thing: allowing another web page to be displayed within your page. And as that uses whatever browser it's running on, you get the full support. I'm sure that opens up quite a few possibilities; E.g. combining Opus produced interface with dynamic content from another source.

Brilliant idea - using the browser object as an iframe - yes this does open up all kinds of avenues and it would be HTML5 in HTML5 so not even a work-around!

Cheers for that thought!

Mack

Thanks, Dave. This sounds promising, although I am quite sure I do not understand it yet.
As for any of the non-workaround workarounds (your link: stackoverflow), please consider providing some Tutorial examples later in the year/+ for how this could be leveraged. Also, if (big IF) I interpret this correctly it sounds like this is something that could and should be built into Opus at the publishing stage as an option -- to even output publish using the IE9 meta tag.

Don't underestimate that external, dynamic content. Do something with that opportunity. Hint... database. OTOH, hell, even draw-in social networking stuff (e.g., what are other people in the same experience saying (brief) about this Pub/Content)

Ha-ha. I have no idea of where you are going with this Mack, but I like the enthusiasm. Please 'showcase' when you have a nugget to share in the Opus future.

I guess I'm different. Grew up around cars (my dad was a mechanic, bodywork, welder, and above all things a craftsman). I think DW should step in here now and step up the marketing of their drive-train.

How about Roy Orbison, "Let The Good Times Roll"?

Cheers.
Very encouraging.


ETA: What I mean by including social networking within the context of a published Opus Pub, is enable some hooks so that people/fellow-workers etc. who are going through the same training might tweet or otherwise share their comments and those relevant notes could be part of the Pub / training itself. (Now presumably this is already possible if one knows how to GET blog comments off a website, but there could be something more 'channeled' here.)

Mack,

On your earlier point, re: Opus BrowserI did some testing and playing with ILMgetvariable and javascript in the HTML page. It seemed to work fine displaying the webpage (which was on local drive).

I used JS to zoom the webpage in and out on an Opus Pub button-click. So I'd say 'yes' to at least some degree of javascript working in Opus browser object. My system was Vista32 (2008), ...don't know the bundled IE version.

FYI, I think I did some other things (not JS) to have Opus change or write a CSS file with different font size or other attributes. The CSS technique required a forced refresh of the webpage/browser (opus navigate()).

I'm enthusiastic because unlike the browser object which is just a window sitting on-top of the page, HTML5 iFrames are more secure and more seamless and mostly importantly can share data; functionality and control elements between the parent and iframe.

It's the kind of functionality that I wished Opus Flex had and although we've yet to get our hands dirty playing with Opus HTML5, it's one of the features that makes Opus great because it flexible - such as the DLL functionality.

Mack

I am interested in the iFrame and future Browser object possibilities. Does this mean (somewhere down the roadmap) that I can publish an Opus Pub and give user a rich text editor... e.g. by embedding ckeditor in the browser object?


Although this is off-topic for my original question, it springs from the revelations on new DW developments to come. Here are a couple uses / applications:
A) use an Opus Pub as a home-built CMS & Authoring tool
B) offers a better rich-text editor to the User. A way to replace Text Input object with ckeditor -- to give the User a better workspace for responses, notes, etc.

I have tried launching ckeditor in the current/old Opus v7 Browser, but without success. Could be limitations of circa 2003 Vista 32.

Wishlist sort-of / just an idea: make ckeditor a native Opus object.
http://ckeditor.com/blog/ckeditor-4-beta-released


Cheers!